Tags on Employment and Recruitment Reviews - leadership

    The 10 Biggest Culture Killers in Recruitment Companies

    This is an edited version of an article that originally appeared in recruitment extra (March 2005 issue). The culture of a company is created, enhanced and also destroyed primarily by the quality of communication (both verbal and non-verbal) that occurs every day in the office. High quality communication is direct, face-to-face, customer oriented, and present or future

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    The 10 Biggest Culture Killers in Recruitment Companies


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    The 5 characteristics of highly effective leaders

    This is an edited version of an article that originally appeared in Recruitment Extra (October 2006 issue) The number of books on leadership could fill a small library. Leadership books by academics, biographers, motivational speakers, sports stars, military leaders, CEO’s, ex-Presidents and the like, are pumped out in their thousands each year. There are enough leadership ‘experts’ and

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    The 5 characteristics of highly effective leaders


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    The Steve Jobs Way: Seven lessons in business leadership

    Having spent a couple of days of my holidays reading the Steve Jobs biography (see Ross Recommends below) I couldn’t help but reflect on the remarkable accomplishments of the man and the lessons applicable for business owners everywhere, big or small.  This could have been a very long list, but here are the seven things that are most strongly front of mind for me (text is paraphrased and quoted

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    The Steve Jobs Way: Seven lessons in business leadership


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    Get Closer to Real World

    Seat at the table. There.  I said it. And it’s the last place you need to be to have real impact on your company.  In fact, everyone sitting at the table needs to push back and get the hell out of the room.  Each person at that table is fooling themselves.  Missing real problems and solving problems that don’t really exist. But Paul – that’s where the action is.  That’s where the real value is generated.  That’s where HR needs to be! Nope.  That’s where you go when you want to stop really making a difference.  The “table” is where your vision overcomes your sight. Too Far Away A great quote hit me the other day.  A quote that immediately resonated with me – and made me think of every Executive I’ve ever worked for and with.  And frankly – it reminded me of myself at different stages of my career. The quote… “Any natural system will appear to be in a state of equilibrium when viewed from a sufficiently removed perspective.” Think about that.  Chew on that.  Internalize that point of view.  The farther you are from the action – the more everything looks like it’s working just fine. Think about astronauts in space.  The earth looks pretty peaceful.  Pretty much like things are humming along.  Until they reenter and step off the shuttle.  Then they’re hit with the news, the problems of everyday life.  When they’re looking down from space – it’s all cool.  When they’re in a traffic jam coming home from Cape Canaveral – it’s all a mess. Executives See the “BIG” Picture Being at the table means you’re looking at big picture things.  Unfortunately, that picture can be pretty rosy if you have no idea of what’s really going on in the day-to-day world of getting things done. We need more executives (and I count HR in that group) to move away from the mahogany table and pull up a chair in the lunchroom.  We need more decision makers to be part of the process that their decisions affect. Compounding Effects If you think about that quote for a second you’ll know it to be true.  But to compound the problem no one will ever tell anyone looking down from on high what’s really going on.  The Execs think they’re getting “feet on the street” points of view to augment their “big picture” but they aren’t.  They’re getting the photoshopped version of what’s happening. Get In The Trenches Want to see what the sales department really needs?  Go make some calls. Grab a few clients and see if you can close the deal with the training and materials that were designed based on your “vision.” Want to know why people are pushing social media as a marketing outlet?  Go get a twitter account and experience how it feels to connect with someone – have impact in a bigger than email way. Want to know why the performance review process sucks – go do one – the way the “books” in your company say to… (tell the truth – if you’re sufficiently high up in the organization you’ve not had a real review in years… that’s just a fact.) I once heard a story about a life-time employee of a big US car manufacturing company who was promoted to President and CEO – and due to the fact that he’d worked at that company right out of college – HAD NEVER BEEN TO A DEALERSHIP TO BUY A CAR!   Always had a company car – delivered to him. This was a guy running a company that SOLD CARS – and never had bought one.  Do you think his perspective on what was working and what wasn’t, was an informed and accurate point of view? Probably not too much. Vision VS Sight Vision is what you do at the big kids table.  Sight is what you get when you do the job in the trenches.  You need both to be successful. Don’t think you have the “complete” picture – just because you have the “big” picture. Get closer to where work gets done and get a better understanding of what it will really take to move the needle in your organization.


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    The True Cost of Turnover Revealed!

    I know, I know -It’s about Damn time right! Finally, I have the answer! First let me tell you, this is a hotly debated item around HR circles – where it is next to impossible to get anyone to agree on a formula or process for determining the cost of turnover for an individual within your organization.  Don’t get me wrong, people have tried SHRM has their worksheet, HireCentrix has a nice model, etc. But no one can come to an agreement on what it really costs our organizations when we turnover an individual.  Are you ready?!?! IT’s $75,000! No, wait, I’m just kidding – it’s not $75,000, but you could probably use that arbitrary number and be just about as close as almost any actual formula that is out there. Ok, truly here it is : Whatever your leadership is willing to agree to! As HR Pros we spend so much time and energy working to come up with an “actual” number that we forget about the buy-in portion of why we are trying to do this to begin with.   The entire reason we (HR) cares about the cost of turnover is because we want to use that number to get something – maybe a new software tool to help us reduce turnover, maybe better benefits to help us retain people longer, maybe it’s to show how much money we’ve saved the organization so we can get a big raise.  We need this number for a reason. The problem with Cost of Turnover numbers is that they are always so high – no one in our organizations outside of HR ever believes they are “true.” “What do you mean it costs us $450,000 when we turnover over an $185,000 Software Developer?! That can’t be true!”  The fact of matter is, isn’t doesn’t matter what the number is.  If you go to leadership and you say – “Look, how much do you think it costs us when we turnover a key employee?” And then, they go – “Um, it’s probably around $50K” At that point, you have a number to work with – $50,000 is still a ton of money to save by reducing turnover – who  cares if the true cost is closer to 10 times that amount. One of the key components to being successful in an HR role, or really any leadership role, is to gain buy-in across a cross section of your organization.  Sometimes we get so caught up in being “right” – we forget that being “right” might not be the most important end result.  Moving your organizations HR agenda forward is the most important aspect of your role – if it means “compromising” the “true” cost of turnover to do that – so be it.  You and the organization will win in the end. Remember the “why” when you are figuring Cost of Turnover in your organization, not the “how”.  Cost of Turnover numbers seem artificially inflated – don’t fall into the trap of huge numbers will equal you getting what you want.  Many times huge “HR” numbers get you send back to your desk because leadership isn’t willing to buy into those numbers.  Before putting in hours of time and building spreadsheets and graphs, spend some time with your decision makers to determine what they are willing to accept.  Also – HR Insider Tip – spend some time with Finance before sitting down with leadership – if your Finance Girl/Guy will back up your number – you will have much higher credibility and get to a decision quicker. The fact is there is huge dollar savings by reducing turnover – don’t lose that by being so stuck on showing “true” numbers.

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    What I learned from the US Navy SEALs’ Team Six

    Last Monday I watched the documentary Targeting Bin Laden that pieced together the story about the raid by American Navy SEALs which resulted in the assassination of Osama bin Laden at his hideout in Pakistan on 1 May this year. It was a compelling piece of television that captured an extraordinary event in a very dramatic way by interviewing the key players in the event as well as using very

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    What I learned from the US Navy SEALs’ Team Six


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    FOT Academy/G5 Webcast: The 5 Faces Managers See During Performance Reviews…

    Hey Kids – This month, G5 Leadership is teaming up with Kris Dunn and Tim Sackett from  Fistful of Talent  for a webcast/Leadership mashup on how to help your HR team and managers bridge the perception gap between how a manager  thinks  the employee is doing and how the employee actually  perceives  their own performance.  We call it the 5 Faces Your Managers See During Performance Reviews …(click to register) Think about that. Mind-bending, isn’t it?  No? Then it's still pretty freaking useful… And this webcast includes an offer below that's too good for you to pass up.  Keep reading… On Tuesday, November 15th, Kris and Tim will break it all down for you at G5 and cover: A comprehensive breakdown of the five most common faces managers will see in Performance Reviews  - including  the Star ,  the Diva ,  the Deflector ,  the 9 to 5  and  the Upwardly Mobile . How to identify each of the faces  across individuals in your organization and team. The unspoken realities you have to address as an organization  to make sure each face is engaged from a performance perspective. A rundown of survival strategies to engage each of the five faces and get what you need  - both out of a performance conversation and through higher performance moving forward. Don’t miss this street-smart session designed to help your managers cut through the smoke and get to what’s real related to performance management .  This session is covered by the Fistful of Talent guarantee:  60% of the time it works every time .  Promise. Now for the big finish.   Because G5 and Fistful of Talent dig each other, if you sign up for this webinar you'll actually receive a free one-year subscription to G5 Leadership .  Go check them out now, and hit this page for the speakers they feature which shows you all you need to know: Speakers/trainers/coaches you get access to from a leadership perspective when you sign up include David Allen (of Getting Things Done fame), Marshall Goldsmith, Bob Sutton, Dave Ulrich, Guy Kawasaki and more.   FOT is a huge believer in G5, thus the relationship and offer.   Attend this leadership session and get a one-year subscription to G5 Leadership for your trouble.  Pass the offer around your company, because the G5 sessions cover all the leadership/manager development areas you need, and let's face it, you're not doing enough from a leadership development perspective.  So use this offer, get yourself and your team signed up for the webcast and get a year's worth of world class, on-demand leadership training for your trouble.   Nice.. . Join Kris, Tim and G5 Leadership for ” The 5 Faces Your Managers See During Performance Reviews “: Date:  November 15, 2011 Time:  11 am, ET Join us:   Register now , use the code g5FOT to get comped and receive your free year's subscription to G5 Leadership

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    FOT Academy/G5 Webcast: The 5 Faces Managers See During Performance Reviews…

    Hey Kids – This month, G5 Leadership is teaming up with Kris Dunn and Tim Sackett from  Fistful of Talent  for a webcast/Leadership mashup on how to help your HR team and managers bridge the perception gap between how a manager  thinks  the employee is doing and how the employee actually  perceives  their own performance.  We call it the 5 Faces Your Managers See During Performance Reviews …(click to register) Think about that. Mind-bending, isn’t it?  No? Then it's still pretty freaking useful… And this webcast includes an offer below that's too good for you to pass up.  Keep reading… On Tuesday, November 15th, Kris and Tim will break it all down for you at G5 and cover: A comprehensive breakdown of the five most common faces managers will see in Performance Reviews  - including  the Star ,  the Diva ,  the Deflector ,  the 9 to 5  and  the Upwardly Mobile . How to identify each of the faces  across individuals in your organization and team. The unspoken realities you have to address as an organization  to make sure each face is engaged from a performance perspective. A rundown of survival strategies to engage each of the five faces and get what you need  - both out of a performance conversation and through higher performance moving forward. Don’t miss this street-smart session designed to help your managers cut through the smoke and get to what’s real related to performance management .  This session is covered by the Fistful of Talent guarantee:  60% of the time it works every time .  Promise. Now for the big finish.   Because G5 and Fistful of Talent dig each other, if you sign up for this webinar you'll actually receive a free one-year subscription to G5 Leadership .  Go check them out now, and hit this page for the speakers they feature which shows you all you need to know: Speakers/trainers/coaches you get access to from a leadership perspective when you sign up include David Allen (of Getting Things Done fame), Marshall Goldsmith, Bob Sutton, Dave Ulrich, Guy Kawasaki and more.   FOT is a huge believer in G5, thus the relationship and offer.   Attend this leadership session and get a one-year subscription to G5 Leadership for your trouble.  Pass the offer around your company, because the G5 sessions cover all the leadership/manager development areas you need, and let's face it, you're not doing enough from a leadership development perspective.  So use this offer, get yourself and your team signed up for the webcast and get a year's worth of world class, on-demand leadership training for your trouble.   Nice.. . Join Kris, Tim and G5 Leadership for ” The 5 Faces Your Managers See During Performance Reviews “: Date:  November 15, 2011 Time:  11 am, ET Join us:   Register now , use the code g5FOT to get comped and receive your free year's subscription to G5 Leadership

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    The leadership difference: why effective leadership pays and how

    Those recruiters who attended the RCSA International Conference in Port Douglas a few months ago, were fortunate enough to witness Steve Vamos speak on the last afternoon. Given Steve’s background in technology companies, you would be forgiven for expecting that his presentation would be hi-tech in format and tech-heavy in content. In fact it was neither. Steve spoke without any slides and he

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    The leadership difference: why effective leadership pays and how


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    Fun and Money – The two reasons to come to work

    There are only two reasons to come to work. Fun and money. And you have to have both . One of them will not be enough. Not if you want to love what you do, that is. Having a job where you get just one or the other, often seduces you into thinking you have found your dream job. But in most cases that dream fades like mirage as you realise a key ingredient of  ‘job love’ is missing. And for recruiters, where our job is so hard, and the disappointments so many, you simply have to have them both for it all to be worth it. Fun and money. But let’s dig into what I mean by ‘fun’ and ‘money’. At work, ‘fun’ is much more than just having a giggle. Fun means working in a business where you believe in the vision and the ethos. That’s where ‘fun’ begins. To do a challenging job well, every day, you have to be doing something that has meaning to you. Fun on the job means working with people you like and respect. Fun at work includes collaboration, mutual support and a strong bond of shared goals. Fun means winning more than losing, continuous learning, constantly growing as a business person, and doing something you know impacts people in a positive way. That’s fun. And it includes traditional fun too. A workplace where we can have a laugh, where we can socialise easily, enjoy each other’s company and celebrate group and individual success. A job that enhances your self esteem and sense of worth. That is fun. Is that how it is for you where you work? If you are going to thrive as a recruiter, indeed in any role, you need to have ‘fun’ the way I define it here. But what about ‘money’? I don’t simply mean the amount you get paid, as important as that may be. I mean working in a business that is financially successful, for a start. If we have a great product or service and deliver it well, we will thrive. And that is where you want to work. Profit is not a dirty word. Profit is like oxygen. We don’t wake up every day with ‘profit’ as our only goal, but like oxygen, we sure notice when it’s not there! Making money means we can invest in people, learning, marketing and technology. And that is fun! And ‘money’ means getting a fair reward for the effort applied and the result achieved. So a heavy element of reward for result is a good thing. And that means if you are good at your job, you get well rewarded. And financial success is important in only one way. More choices in life . And that leads us back to fun! So there it is. You can read many books on employee engagement and motivation at work. Put them all aside. You don’t need them to evaluate whether you are in the right job, recruiter or not. Want to love what you do? Work with the ‘twin sisters of the holy grail’ – Fun and Money *************************************************************************************************** Subscribe to The Savage Truth and ‘Like” our Facebook page to enure you get your recruiting brain-food fix.

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    Fun and Money – The two reasons to come to work


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    The ‘gravity of success’ prevents innovation: Summary of the 2011 RCSA Conference

    The RCSA delivered another excellent annual conference last week at the Sheraton Mirage in Port Douglas, Queensland. Over 300 attendees were treated to a varied and high quality program which ensured that recruitment agency owners and managers departed Far North Queensland with just as many questions about the future of their respective businesses as they did answers. Peter Sheahan was the

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    The ‘gravity of success’ prevents innovation: Summary of the 2011 RCSA Conference


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    Motivating recruiters: Who’s responsible?

    Professional sport can be brutal. Two weekends ago in the AFL the Melbourne Demons travelled west to play the Geelong Cats in Geelong. The Demons were just outside the Top 8 and the Cats were second from the top. The Demons were not expected to win but nobody could have predicted the humiliation that was to be inflicted by the Cats that afternoon. The final winning margin of 186 points was only

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    Iris Interactive

    Iris Interactive Iris Interactive | Iris Pharma Solutions | Iris Consumer Solutions | Sydney blog nbsp;| contact us nbsp;| about us |&nbsp sitemap Home About Us About Iris Vision and Values Partners Careers Iris Leadership Team From the desk of the CEO Products Solutions Iris Pharma Market Development Brand Development Growth Management Iris Consumer Strategic Planning Hub Communication Development Hub Channel Management Hub Consumer Insights Hub Brand Equity Hub Innovation Hub BrandNET Platform Iris Solution Delivery Customers Our Customer Brands Success Stories What They Say News Events News Our Blog Contact Us Contact Details Our Location Make an Enquiry Request a Demo Iris Interactive’s Product Commercialisation Software helps you achieve Faster Time to Market Higher Sales and Stronger Brands Iris web-based collaboration platform for innovation and product commercialisation captures all the critical processes timelines teams and documentation key to launching products faster achieving higher sales and building stronger brands locally regionally and globally Delivering several million dollars of additional revenue to companies Click for more information Click for more information About Us About Iris Vision and Values Partners Careers Iris Leadership Team From the desk of the CEO Products Solutions Iris Pharma Iris Consumer BrandNET&reg Platform Iris Solution Delivery Customers Our Customers Success Stories What They Say Contact Us Contact Details Our Location Make an Enquiry copy 2011 Iris Interactive Pty Ltd All rights reserved nbsp;   &nbsp


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    luognostansu: keeley hazell wallpaper

    If you are an intending immigrant, and your immigration option is employment based, do you have the patience the wait 15 years for your green card? Can you do better in Australia , Canada, or even back home in your home country? …. The professional agency says that I have a degree + minor in CS before I got by CS degree from the U.S. I also have recommendation letters from my previous employers recommending me for full-time leadership positions and sorts. …

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    luognostansu: keeley hazell wallpaper


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    “Different Thinking” from our Recruitment Leaders – a book review

    In a world seemingly awash with business books, management texts and leadership essays it seems to me that there is a distinct dearth of quality, interesting and genuinely illuminating books relating to our unique recruitment industry.  In fact I usually find myself reading business-related books and trying to mentally wrap their content around our oddly-shaped industry

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    Australian white-collar market among most resilient; Top internal recruiter joins FiveTen; plus more.

    Australian white-collar labour market one of the world’s most resilient…. FiveTen appoints new head of internal recruitment…. Australian business not affected by UK turmoil: HCL…. Sustain Group introduces fixed fee recruitment services…. Asia-Pac executives lack faith in leadership: Korn/Ferry…. Freelancer.com launches design site.

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    Australian white-collar market among most resilient; Top internal recruiter joins FiveTen; plus more.


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    Australian white-collar market among most resilient; Top internal recruiter joins FiveTen; plus more.

    Australian white-collar labour market one of the world’s most resilient…. FiveTen appoints new head of internal recruitment…. Australian business not affected by UK turmoil: HCL…. Sustain Group introduces fixed fee recruitment services…. Asia-Pac executives lack faith in leadership: Korn/Ferry…. Freelancer.com launches design site.

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    Australian white-collar market among most resilient; Top internal recruiter joins FiveTen; plus more.


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    I Heart So Much: The Bully at Work

    Present the data gathered (in Step 2) to let the highest level person you can reach (not HR ) know about the bully’s impact on the organization. Obviously in family-owned, or small businesses, this is impossible (so leave once targeted). … Employers are lazy and trust on-the- job experiences to teach people to be good and humane managers. This is wrong. The leadership team is responsible for all bullying! It would not happen without executives’ explicit or tacit approval. …

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    I Heart So Much: The Bully at Work

    “Please note – this post was scraped from the original site as indicated above in the “read more about this article URL” and is in no way reflects the views, opinions or values of the team at Review Recruiter. More specifically, Review Recruiter is in no way connected with, associated with or involved with the original author or the original authors content.

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    Giving Advice is like a Punch in the Face if it is Not Asked For

    95% of my job revolves around talent management.  Since the term talent management is overused, my definition of talent management includes: Ensuring Talent is available Ensuring Talent is given rewarding career opportunities Ensuring Talent is in the right place at the right time In order to achieve those three things I spend a lot of time sharing my opinions including business opinions, education opinions, personal opinions and gut opinions.  HR leadership roles demand giving opinion on so many levels that it is easy to fall into a very bad trap: Giving opinions when they are not asked for. What brought this topic to mind was a special I saw on PBS a few days back.  The series is called Forgiveness:  A time to love, a time to hate.  This was a graphic and intense look at the concept of forgiveness from some of the most personal, intimate places:  forgiving the apartheid regime for atrocities against your family, forgiving the radical protester for shooting your father who is a police officer, forgiving your wife for leaving you and the kids. A point was made that resonated with me profoundly.  Simply put, forgiveness was almost impossible to grant if the person seeking forgiveness it did not ask for it.  Those wronged could in their mind (and with time) justify wrongful actions, could feel less intense anger, and could even empathize with the person who wronged them.  But they could not complete the cycle of forgiveness until the one seeking forgiveness acknowledged the hurt and asked for forgiveness. So what is the HR takeaway?  Employees are well intended.  Employees are also in need of much help and advice from HR.  But for an employee to be really ready to heed the advice—they need to ask for it.  More importantly they need to be open to it.  The cycle of learning (as in the cycle of forgiving) cannot really begin until the “student” asks for it. How do you navigate this with employees? Be a knowledge leader in your HR discipline, so when some asks for advice, you are ready. Continually work on building trust within your organization, so employees will feel comfortable reaching out. This is HUGE. If you feel you must give advice when it is not asked for, have a really good reason.  Like to mitigate an illegal action. Know that it is always OK to give un-asked for advice in authentic conversations, but don’t get frustrated if your advice is not considered gospel. And if you do get frustrated… you can always ask for forgiveness later. Editor's Note –  Dawn Hrdlica (PHR) is VP of People at DAXKO. That's right – the very DAXKO that our very own KD is an alum of because there are only so many people (okay, just one) in the big B'ham who are worthy of that VP of People title. Dawn would be it. Former actor/singer/retail guru, her HR career has spanned the last decade. She's based in the good 'ole blogging capitol of the south, Birmingham, Alabama, where you can frequently find her and KD hollering… Roll Tide (although her heart belongs to Southern Miss!)

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    Real leaders give people what they need, not what they want

    This post is for anyone who manages people, or who hopes to in the future. It will probably draw some flak too, but that’s because I don’t really believe in generational differences. I think it has been largely hyped and exaggerated. I have plenty of employees at Firebrand who fit into the so-called ‘Gen Y’ age bracket. And I don’t see the negative characteristics often ascribed to this ‘generation’. Mostly, I see hard working, highly focused individuals who want to do well, have fun and make a difference. And many of them have been with us years, defying the job-hopping Gen Y stereotypes. Often, too much talk of how to ‘manage the generations’ leads to skipping over some of the difficult things that need to be done when managing people. And I reckon those things need to be done no matter who you are dealing with. One of the ways I define great leadership is that the leader actually cares. Bureaucrats do not make leaders. Administrators don’t make leaders either. But before we go any further on the subject of “caring” for our people, a key word of warning on this. Unfortunately there is too much hype nowadays about the idea that leaders must show concern for their teams. Apparently you have to give a figurative cuddle of support to ‘Gen Y’ staff on the hour or they will resign and go Llama farming in Peru. Codswallop. You cannot fake the fact that you care about the people in the business. There is nothing worse than a manager returning from the latest interpersonal skills training program with “concern” for others beaming from every orifice. It’s not real and everyone knows it’s not real. Real leaders don’t need training programmes to convince their staff they care. What’s more, real leaders empathise with the people they lead. By this I mean the leader knows what a recruiter does, knows how hard it is and knows the inevitable peaks and troughs. I have always found it key to any success I have had as a manager of recruiters, that I have worked a desk myself. I feel the recruiter’s pain to this day. I have had shocking months, offers turned down and phones slammed in my ear.  So I do understand the bruises the job will give you. I also like everyone I work with on an interpersonal level, so I really do care when someone is having a bad month or day. But some times the empathy you need to have is of the “tough” kind. View video on YouTube Tough empathy means giving your consultants what they NEED not what they want. That means often telling people things they don’t want to hear, or setting work practices and goals that at first they may not agree with, or like at all. But that’s OK because tough empathy works – and tough empathy is about what’s needed at a particular point in time, not what’s preferred by the consulting team. After all, the team may want something, or prefer something else, but they don’t after all ultimately carry the responsibility for the business, do they? You do though. At its best, what tough empathy means, is a balance between respect for the individual and the business imperative to achieve the task at hand. So it could mean sitting with a recruiter who is failing, but who you know can make it. It will mean putting that person on a rehabilitation plan. It means closely managing activities, imposing time management regimes, setting daily goals, and providing intense coaching. It’s confronting and scary for the consultant. It’s frankly not that much fun for the leader either. Yes it’s tough. But you are doing it because you care about their success and their future – and at a deep level they know that. Do you see what I am saying here? The recruiter knows you are doing something difficult for you, and difficult for her, because you care about what happens to her.  And the power in that dynamic is almost immeasurable. Some people think that to be a great leader you have to be liked by all. That could not be more untrue. People in our industry, regardless of  ‘generation’ are not looking for friends when they look to their boss. They are looking for direction, support, honesty and clarity. And even though they may not know it at first, they may be looking for the occasional dose of tough empathy too. For regular recruiting brain food, please subscribe to The Savage Truth.

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    Real leaders give people what they need, not what they want


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